I am beginning to ask myself this question and I think I am hearing others ask it. I've left church now but it has left a hole. There were many good things but I couldn't cope with my buttons being pressed all the time. I was fed up with so many people inflicting their agenda on me - telling me how I ought to live. The thing that bothered me the most was when folks with no healing ministry would be teaching children to pray for one another. I'd look at the teachers and not see any faith for healing but a despiration for the supernatural. Why not for example teach the children completative prayer? Ah you can't see the results. It doesn't make you look good. Hmmmmmm.
I feel like I've been forced out of church, because the people are not aware of those issues and are pretty well defended on them. I feel silenced over the matter. It's not a valid topic of conversation with them. But it still leaves a hole.
I enjoyed the feeling of community, and deep down I have an intuitive hunger for something more. I am still left with a hole.
I could search London for a community of believers who have got it right. Maybe? I don't hold out much hope and anyway that would be being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
I could join some friends in their expression of church.
For the moment I think I'll just ask the question. Anyone else's answers or deeper questions would are most welcome. Comments anyone?
11 comments:
I think I am with you, just asking the question. I have slowly begun to realize that there are many more ways to have community than just one way. Like you, I miss the people, but I don't think I can subject myself to the lies ever again.
but that’s just me.
Please don't take this as criticism, because I know what a gut-wrenching decision it can be to leave. I don't judge anyone for making that choice. But the struggle I had, and what ultimately led to my decision to stay (so far) was that if I left, who would there be to counter the lies? Maybe that's my mentality because of having been in a leadership position (no longer, but still have a lingering sense of responsibility for the body). Not so much seeking community for me, but seeking to be community for them? Does that make sense? Or should I seek professional help?
Yes I have a comment, and I feel it more and more strongly every day to be right for some....
"Let it all go".
ALL.
God is well able to hear your concerns and guide you (me too) along the best path where no damn lion knows about it. Nothing waiting to devour us, because it's gone.
Answers do come. At least in my experience they do. And they are pretty different than all that's been before. No point looking there. Church age is ending, don't forget! If you are hearing "leave it" then leave. If you have peace to stay, then stay. Seek peace and pursue it.
Dorsey.. not taken as criticism at all.. ;o).. I was the eldest of three boys and while I was tiny some important people around me suffered with severe depression - so my sense of responsibility is also over-developed.. so one of the things I've worked through is that whole thing of they need me to "counter the lies".. however I am learning profoundly that people are the architects of the situations they find themselves in and they choose to embrace the lies.. so given that "bad company corrupts good character" I eventually decided that the church I was attending was effectively a toxic relationship for me and I have left using their own philosphy as the reason - "you become who you hang out with".. I just didn't want them as my role models.. as for influencing the world I believe there is a God created purpose for me to fulfil.. my job isn't to rescue that church.. it may be to expose the lies but not just yet.. as Jesus said in one of his stories I need to be faithful in the small things first and that means for me at this point in time loving my girlfriend and my two small boys to the best of my ability.. then my friends.. then.. eventually maybe I'll be called to say something to a larger group of people who are choosing to live in the lie.. but until that day.. I wrote about it earlier in Spheres of Influence
peace and acceptance
DM
Boltono
LOL. Do you ever wonder if your preaching to the choir? I had to laugh at your post. Is it just a stylistic thing of yours or do you normally speak to everyone in imperatives? I remember a life coaching telling us what he did as someone strong asserted their opinion - in his head he always added "according to you".
So it is nice to hear about your experience but it is just that - your experience and opinion...
Take care and ponder if you like
Peace
DM
Dorsey.. you're provoking thoughts.. thx.. ;o).. another one is that maybe to leave is more of a statement than to stay.. clearly not always but maybe sometimes? DM
DM
Both leaving and staying make statements, but in all the busy-ness (and general apathy) of church life, the statement made by leaving is quickly forgotten.
In light of my recent conflict, many people assumed that I would go. And there's a certain don't-rock-the-boat mentality among a few that might find a degree of relief in my departure. But my wife contends that we all have our "schtick," and part of mine is being unpredictable and provokative. Perhaps that's part of it. But the other part of it is that the Truth is not served by leaving. My decision to remain says, "We will contend with this." If I'm a thorn in someone's paw, well...I didn't do anything wrong. I have nothing from which to run.
I understand that our situations are wildly different, and the part I didn't mention is that I have close friends here who I can turn to for support, encouragement and a kick in the nuts, as needed. Maybe that's not the case for you (have I just given you an "out?").
Of course, only you can make this decision. It's clear that you don't make it lightly. The tough part is maintaining the right spirit. I know this will sound ambiguous and churchy, but in your heart, make sure you stay on the high road.
...according to me. (LOL, I like that!)
I can empathize. It's a funny thing, for me, how the place with which I have identified in the past and found the greatest acceptance/community is now the place where I feel the most misunderstood, alienated, and even (at times) rejected.
To only make matters worse, I used to be the intolerant, single-minded type who confused acceptance with approval and shunned people much like myself.
Dorsey... I think the statement of leaving is subtle and long term... leaving out of anger accomplishes little... leaving out of love maybe more... dunno... what do you think?
DM
Leaving out of love...hmm. I suppose, if the purpose is served.
The leave of absence I took after Easter has that element. My choice was to "stand for what's right," which would have required publicly calling the pastor a liar, or to step away, let people speculate, and hope things cool off (neither of those things happened). I made the choice to step away primarily because of the damage that would have been inflicted on the Church (the people, I mean, not the organization), had I been the one to take things downhill. Yet I was accused of hurting the church by backing away. Could that be considered leaving out of love? I don't know. I hope so.
Now that things are sorting out, and I'm still sort of on the outside looking in, my decision should be easier, right? Nope. In the melee, most of those we relied on for leadership have left, and now the pastor is at the point of announcing his retirement. The Church (the people) still stands to be hurt, and I was, debatably, the one person left who could have brought some sense of stability to a period of transition. In my mind, to abandon them now would be to shirk my responsibility to remain available.
Forgive my going on and on about my own situation, but I find personal experience is often the most articulate expression of perspective.
In the end, Love must be the motivation for every course of action. That's a real bitch when my desire is a nuclear response.
...according to me :-)
Hey hey Dorsey.. no worries about talking about your situation.. I am honoured by your openness and as a friend’s dad says I have two ears and one mouth.. So talk away..
I guess I have several thoughts.
I think we can, if we want to, love everyone. In any relationship there are three lives involved - you, me & us. So I may walk away out of love for the you (say I'm hurting you), the me (you're hurting me) or the us (we don't inspire each other towards anything good). I left my church as the "you" was hurting me, and the "us" was not an us - it was a one way street where the "you" was impervious to the needs of the "me". Hence the post "Love yourself as your neighbour".
But addressing issues in the "you" or "us" part of the relationship is hard. Incredibly hard. With any problem I think you can either accept it, change it or walk away. I think there is a difference between walking away and stomping off in a childish tantrum. To walk away means to not look back - not that you're burning bridges - but you don't use it as an emotional blackmail thing. Many people use the threat of walking as a tool for reformation. Uh oh. Problem city. You can also decide to walk away a few steps. To walk away isn't the same as abandoning though the Other in the relationship may experience feeling abandoned. To walk away can be taking responsibility.
Having space can be really good in a relationship. The more stuff you have to deal with the more space might be needed. Quality time alone. Solitude if you want to Christianise it.
Sounds like your situation is a nightmare. Someone behaving badly. It's a dilemma of the worst kind. If the pastor was lying then the pain caused by that revelation is not your responsibility but his, and we can only imagine the damage done by leaving it lie. But that is assuming it's a black and white lie - rather than a conflict in perspective and desires.
>>In the end, Love must be the motivation for every course of action.
Nah. I have to disagree.
In the end, I think we can be open to the possibility that love will help create a more beautiful outcome. If we say we must love surely we submit our souls to the torture of religiosity that we are desperately needing to escape. The Gospel according to DangerMouse is that we may love if we want to and that may make life more exciting and fulfilling to live. But we don't have to. Only if we desire to. *grin*.
Bon Courage
Acceptance and peace
DM
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